Is Your Favorite Here!

Here's lookin' at you, Donna Pointkouski (What's Past Is Prologue) who wrote to tell me that the birth of her nephew, Luke, gave her brother the opportunity to use one of the most famous movie lines ever written. Can you find it?



I'm off in search of treasure today. Wish me luck. While I'm gone see if your favorite movie line is here.

Memorial Day - The Fall City Cemetery

My husband and I visited the Fall City Cemetery in Fall City, Washington. It is a beautiful and well maintained cemetery on a hill overlooking the Snoqualmie Valley. Fall City is named for its location 3 miles below Snoqualmie Falls. This cemetery is the final resting place for pioneers Josiah Merritt, after whom Mount Si was named, and Jeremiah Borst, the founder of Fall City. I thought I would share a select few photographs of the veterans of service to our country who are buried here.

Jacob W. Huffman
93 Illinois Infantry
Co. B.
Civil War Veteran

Carl Klaus
Co. B 28 Regular Volunteer Infantry
Civil War Veteran
GAR
Oct. 8, 1841
Oct. 12, 1925

William W. Brown
Washington
Cpl. Quartermaster Corps.
World War I
Nov. 5, 1886 - March 8, 1965

Dewey Emerson Smith
Washington
PFC US Army
World War I & II
Feb. 16, 1898 - Oct. 20, 1963

The Good Earth

73rd Edition of The COG

The topic for the next edition of the Carnival of Genealogy is:


"The Good Earth"



Were your ancestors sharecroppers or land barons?

- ¤ -

Perhaps an ancestor was a logger or a miner.

- ¤ -

Do you have stories of homesteading?

- ¤ -

Is there a master gardener in your tree?

- ¤ -

If your ancestors lived in the city did they keep a square foot garden
or escape the city to a favorite park?

- ¤ -

Tell us about your family's ties to the land!

- ¤ - ¤ -

The Deadline For Submissions Is
June 1, 2009

Apple will host the next edition of the COG on Apple's Tree.

- ¤ - ¤ -

Attention All COG Participants

Please use a descriptive phrase in the title of any articles you plan to submit and/or write a brief description/introduction to your articles in the "comment" box of the blogcarnival submission form. This will give readers an idea of what you've written about and hopefully interest them in clicking on your link. Introductions for your articles will not be provided for you due to the volume of articles submitted. Thank you!

Also, check out Jasia's post "FAQs About The Carnival of Genealogy," for all you need to know about submitting a post. First-timers always welcome and greatly appreciated!

Submit your blog article to the next edition of the Carnival of Genealogy using the carnival submission form or select the 73rd Edition COG poster in the upper right hand corner of this page. Past posts and future hosts can be found on the blog carnival index page.

Slap This On My Bumper!

Select The Bumper Sticker for more detail.

Randy's having Saturday Night GeneaFun, again. And I couldn't resist. We all know, I'm an extra credit sort of woman, so here's my bumper sticker. And I think I may even want this on my tombstone.

Here's all you do to play along:

1) Make up a/some Bumper Sticker(s) that describes your genealogy addicti.., er, passion in 12 words or less. You could recite some of your favorite tag lines like those found here or here. Or you could be very creative and make up your own!

2) Post them to your blog or to the comments on Randy's Saturday Night Fun post.

3) Extra credit if you make them look like a real bumper sticker!

A Lovely & Friendly Blog

Recently, several of my fellow GeneaBloggers were gracious enough to award footnoteMaven and Shades Of The Departed with The Lovely and Friendly Blog Awards.

As I have said several times recently, I'm so far behind I can see the back of my head. Please forgive my tardiness. As I was so late in thanking them, I decided that I needed to do something special for the lovely women who took the time to reward me.

I decided to make each of them into a work of art, not that they aren't already. With a very special thank you to the work of John Singer Sargent I present three beautiful GeneaBloggers in portrait. Thank you, I appreciate your time, kind words, and awards very much.

Earline Hines Bradt
Ancestral Notes


Mary Beaulieu
Ancestor Tracking

Robin
Where I Come From

Kay
Kay B's Place

The Carnival's In Town

13th EDITION

Smile For The Camera
10 May 2009

The word prompt for the 13th Edition of Smile For The Camera is All Creatures Great And Small. You'll find it very interesting how each submission interpreted this word prompt. Six countries represented their creatures, great and small. One thing is certain, the love and care that each of you and your ancestors lavished on your "great and small creatures" is universal. The posts were the bitter with the sweet. You'll enjoy them all, I did.

Also, a glitch with Blog Carnival left two of the participants standing outside the tent with their ticket in hand. It's two posts too good to miss.

Alana Farrell of A Twig In My Tree, shows us some darling photos of Prince and tells us his beautiful story. His talents were many and his love for his family unquestionable. "Prince wasn't just a dog, he was the baby brother I never had," Alana tells us.

The Dog That Swam The Pond, Maybe; is Linda Hughes Hiser's missing submission for Smile. On her site, Flipside, she displays three photographs of a very loved family dog(s). Two ca. 1890's and one ca. 1907 or later. The two earlier clearly showing a dog who knows how to Smile For The Camera. But are they the same dog?

There Will Be No Readheaded Children

Sarah is one of my genealogical regrets. There was a studio portrait of Sarah Jane Graham Campbell, my Great Great Grandmother. She threw the portrait away. Having never cared for the likeness she was certain no one would ever want it. How very wrong she was.

Another installment in the Campbell Family History.

IT IS SETTLED; THERE WILL BE NO REDHEADED CHILDREN. Sarah Jane Graham, the oldest daughter of a wealthy farming family, was being courted by an Irishman named Kelly, a local farmer. A proposal of marriage was expected from him and Sarah, being a stubborn sixteen-year-old girl, had made up her mind not to marry him because she wanted no redheaded children.

Sarah’s justification for not marrying farmer Kelly raises suspicions as to her true feelings for him, because on the fourth of April 1843, William Graham gave his permission to John Campbell to marry his eldest daughter Sarah and in the forty years they were married they had several redheaded children. The redheaded gene was to visit every generation of the Campbell family down to and including mine.

John was thirty-six years old, sixteen years older than his bride and had spent most of his adult life living with his parents. All indications are that theirs was a loving marriage. Sarah was well taken care of by John and nothing more was required of her than having his children.

That was until the War Between The States. John and Sarah Campbell owned slaves and had southern sympathies. Life in Union held Carroll County, Missouri, was becoming very dangerous for their family.

Isaac, their oldest son, had already gone off to war to fight for the Confederacy. Sarah and John feared for the safety of their fourteen-year-old son, James, who was at the mercy of the Union soldiers billeted just outside town. To save James, John spirited him out of the county in the dark of night to the safety of his sister Jenny Sproul's home in Louisville, Kentucky.

Sarah had moved away from the Union troops to their farm in Brunswick, Missouri. She took her youngest son, three daughters, and the family slaves. With John gone, the responsibility now fell to Sarah to maintain the crops and safeguard their home. She was called on to protect her way of life, her home, and her family against great odds. And she was to succeed.

Next:
The Battle Of Lexington
In and Around The City
September 18, 19, 20, 1861

Mother Was A Blacksmith And A Man

A Retelling Of Mother's Day 2008
With A 1930 Census Addition

Out of curiosity, which we all know killed the cat, and in honor of Mothers' Day I took a census trip in search of men named "Mother." And I actually found a few.

I had to wander through the Mother Superiors of the world, but found the following male Mothers:

Mother Campion was a 55 year old male who immigrated to this country from Ireland. He lived in Quincy, Illinois, in 1870 with his wife Margaret and was a blacksmith.

Mother Bell was a 57 year old male who lived with his wife Ida, their four sons, two grandsons and adopted daughter Sarah. He was a farmer in 1920 in Athens, Georgia.

Mother Collins was a five year old boy living with his grandmother, Lizzy Laney, in New Hanover, North Carolina in 1920.

Mother Lyon was a 37 year old male body builder living with his wife, Marion, in Fairfield, Connecticut in 1920.

Mother Benton was a 7 year old boy living with his mother, Mollie, in Brazoria, Texas, in 1930. We will have to wait another ten years to see if he had the good sense to change his name. Will I still be blogging then?

What were their Mothers thinking?

Sources:

Census:

1870 U.S. census, Adams County, Illinois, population schedule, Quincy, p. 515, dwelling 682, family 618, Mother Campion (Head); digital images. Heritage Quest (http://persi.heritagequestonline.com/ : retrieved 5 May 2008); citing NARA microfilm publication M593, roll 187.

1920 U.S. census, Adams County, Illinois, population schedule, Quincy, p. 8, dwelling 164, family 181, Mother Bell (Head); digital images. Heritage Quest (http://persi.heritagequestonline.com/ : retrieved 5 May 2008); citing NARA microfilm publication T625, roll 243.

1920 U.S. census, Adams County, Illinois, population schedule, Quincy, p. 93, dwelling 290, family 337, Lizzy Laney (Head); digital images. Heritage Quest (http://persi.heritagequestonline.com/ : retrieved 5 May 2008); citing NARA microfilm publication T625, roll 1312.

1920 U.S. census, Adams County, Illinois, population schedule, Quincy, p. 107, dwelling 53, family 86, Mother Lyon (Head); digital images. Heritage Quest (http://persi.heritagequestonline.com/ : retrieved 5 May 2008); citing NARA microfilm publication T625, roll 176.

1930 U.S. census, Precinct 4, Texas, population schedule, Brazoria, p. 107, dwelling 78, family 80, Mollie Benton (Head); digital images. Ancestry (http://search.ancestry.com/ : retrieved 9 May 2009); citing NARA microfilm publication T626, roll 2301.

Photograph:

Photograph Courtesy of The Library of Congress: The New Woman

Smile For The Camera - A Reminder

13th EDITION

Smile For The Camera
10 May 2009

The word prompt for the 13th Edition of Smile For The Camera is All Creatures Great And Small. Show us a photograph of the family pet. The pet that made it into every family snapshot. That pampered pet your ancestors took to the photographic studio to immortalize in an expensive photograph. The best friend who was there for your ups and downs. Bring them to the carnival and share with us how they were loved through the ages. Admission is free with every photograph!

Your submission may include as many or as few words as you feel are necessary to describe your treasured photograph. Those words may be in the form of an expressive comment, a quote, a journal entry, a poem (your own or a favorite), a scrapbook page, or a heartfelt article. The choice is yours!

Deadline for submission is midnight (PT)
10 May 2009
Posted - 15 May 2009

HOW TO SUBMIT:

There are two options:

1. Send an email to the host, footnoteMaven. Include the title and permalink URL of the post you are submitting, your name, and the name of your blog. Put 'Smile For The Camera' clearly in the title of your email!

2. Use the handy submission form provided by Blog Carnival, or select the Bumper Sticker in the upper right hand corner.

See you at the Carnival!

Oh Mother Dear!

72nd Edition of The COG

The topic for the next edition of the Carnival of Genealogy is:


"Mothers"


Mother’s Day is right around the corner.
This is the perfect time to honor a Mother.

Your Mother

Grandmother

Godmother

Step Mother

Den Mother

Aunt

Neighbor

Friend

Or anyone who happens to be a mother

- ¤ -

Already written about your own mother for the COG?

- ¤ -

Write about another Mother on your family tree

- ¤ -

Let’s make all our moms famous!


- ¤ - ¤ -

The Deadline For Submissions Is
May 15, 2009

Attention All COG Participants

Please use a descriptive phrase in the title of any articles you plan to submit and/or write a brief description/introduction to your articles in the "comment" box of the blogcarnival submission form. This will give readers an idea of what you've written about and hopefully interest them in clicking on your link. Introductions for your articles will not be provided for you due to the volume of articles submitted. Thank you!

Also, check out Jasia's post "FAQs About The Carnival of Genealogy," for all you need to know about submitting a post. First-timers always welcome and greatly appreciated!

Submit your blog article to the next edition of the Carnival of Genealogy using the carnival submission form or select the 72nd Edition COG poster in the upper right hand corner of this page. Past posts and future hosts can be found on the blog carnival index page.

Scanning My Women Wearing Glasses And What I've Learned

How do I scan my women wearing glasses is a question I'm often asked. The following is the information I've compiled and use for scanning my collections. It may not work for everyone, it may not work for you, but it is adaptable, and I hope it may be of some benefit.

Cleaning Your Work Area

Keep your work area clean. No food or drink in the work area while scanning old photographs and documents. You don't really need a reason do you? Many old documents and photographs tend to be dirty and will leave dirt in the work area and on scanning equipment. Clean often.

The rest of this article can be found at Shades of the Departed.

From The Flames My Home

Ah! mother, we have such a city and country out here as there is nowhere

else on the face of the earth! Its greatness must be seen to be realized; its
people must be met to be understood.

~ Amos Matterson To His Mother ~
Describing Seattle After The Great Fire

My home was built as the result of the careless act of John E. Back, the man pictured to the right. On June 6, 1889, Back was employed in the Clairmont and Company cabinet shop, located in the basement of the wooden Pontius building at 922 Front and Madison Streets in downtown Seattle.

The people of Seattle were still reading in the local papers of the terrible June 1st tragedy of the Johnstown Flood, when they suffered the greatest disaster in our city's history.

In a small carpentering and paint shop under a boot and shoe store in a little frame building standing on piles, Back was heating a pot of glue.

On June 7, 1889, Back gave his account of what happened next to a reporter from the Seattle Post Intelligencer.

While working in the cabinet shop:

"I cut some balls of glue and put them in the glue pot on the stove … [and] went to work about twenty-five feet away, near the front door. After a while somebody said ‘Look at the glue.’ Another fellow, a Findlander from New York, then took a piece of board and laid it on to smother the glue, but the board caught fire. Then I run and took the pot of water to smother the fire and poured it over the pot of glue, which was blazing up high. When I throw the water on, the glue flew all over the shop into the shavings and everything take fire."

John E. Back, age 24, was described as a “short, thick-set blonde of mediocre intelligence.” Easily said after the fact. Back arrived in the United States from Sweden in 1887 and moved to Seattle in October 1888. It appears that shortly after giving this interview to the Intelligencer, John Back left Seattle.

Seattle had been built on slabs and sawdust. The building construction was of wood and was very flimsy. Seattle's fire department was entirely volunteer and the fire hydrants and water system were all from one source. A man among the onlookers observed, "I'm from Chicago, and the town is doomed!" And he was correct.

. . .the awful cry would be heard, "NO WATER!"

Forty blocks - eighty acres of land - and twenty acres of water front had been destroyed! Every wharf, every landing, every warehouse, every factory, every mill, the coal bunkers, almost all the businesses, the railroad stations, and countless homes had been burned from the face of the earth.

Rudyard Kipling, the British poet, arrived in Seattle by steamer shortly after the fire. He described the remains as “a horrible black smudge, as though a Hand had come down and rubbed the place smooth. I know now what being wiped out means.”

Rebuilding began immediately. ". . .to show the magnificent independence of the place and the heroic character of the people, the fund of several thousand dollars which had been raised for the Johnstown sufferers was sent on to be used for the purpose for which it had been subscribed and paid, notwithstanding that the people were living in tents, many of them shelterless, and that carloads of provisions and supplies for our own town were being sent in for the destitute and needy in our own midst." Amos Matterson.

The beginning of the fire, looking south on Front Street,
and a view showing the ruins, looking south
from Commercial Street.

Seattle needed construction materials. The area surrounding Seattle saw major growth in lumber, logging, and the shingle business. The same year as the fire, the Seattle, Lake Shore and Eastern Railway was completed to North Bend and provided an economical method of transporting building materials for construction in Seattle.

In 1892 August Lovegren and his partners formed the Preston Mill Company for the purpose of milling shingles. In 1896, Lovegren moved the mill to Saint Louis, which he renamed Preston, the town where I live. Lovegren encouraged extensive Swedish settlement in the Preston area and also served as Preston's Postmaster. Artifacts of life in Swedish Upper Preston have been discovered while digging in many of our backyards. Recently an old bank was found in a neighbor's back yard that read, " The Scandinavian American Bank, Seattle, WASH.

Lovegren acquired additional timber land in the Raging River canyon, built a flume to float shingle bolts down to the Preston Mill, and established the area known as Upper Preston. Here in 1899 my home was built as one of the mill houses rented to employees of the Preston Mill. Next to my house was the company store, across the street was the cookhouse, and just down the road was the mill school.

Both my house and the company store are still standing, along with mill houses that were built in later years. The area is referred to as Upper Preston to this day.

The photograph of my home to the left is from the office of the King County Assessor for the year 1940.



The Polk Directory for King County in 1911-12, listed Preston as having a population of 576 people, a shingle mill, a Swedish Baptist Church, Mrs. Carlson's milinary, the Preston Hotel (with an indoor pool), a grocery, meat market, a shoemaker, and Swanberg's Confections and cigars. The Baptist Church and the remnants of the mill are all that remain.

The Swedish Baptist Church

The Great Seattle fire rid the city of rats, opened the area to an influx of settlers working to rebuild her, made her the heart of the Pacific Northwest, and provided a need for the lumber and shingles from the beautiful Raging River canyon where I now live. Perhaps we should thank John E. Back.

Sources:

Books:

Andrews,Elisha Benjamin. The History Of The Last Quarter-Century In The United States, 1870-1895.NEW YORK : Charles Scribners Sons, 1895.

Wilhelm,Honor L. The Coast. Seattle : The Metropolitan Press Inc., 1902.

Photographs:

John E. Back Courtesy of The HistoryLink.org

Seattle On Fire & Seattle In Ruins from the book; Andrews,Elisha Benjamin. The History Of The Last Quarter-Century In The United States,1870-1895.NEW YORK : Charles Scribners Sons, 1895.

My home, Digital Format, Office of the King County Assessor, 1940. Privately held by the footnoteMaven, Preston, Washington. 2009.

Baptist Church, a reproduction from Cathy Lykes. Unknown. Privately held by the footnoteMaven, Preston, Washington. 2009.

Website:

Lange, Greg. HistoryLink.org Online Encyclopedia of Washington State History, "Seattle's Great Fire." http://www.historylink.org/ : accessed April 23, 2009.

The Citation Goddess - Elizabeth Shown Mills - Weighs In

"Thanks for your call for standardization of source citations within our field, a goal that would reduce the angst of many researchers.

May I clarify one point in your quote from Mark? (I.e., “There are many citation tools like Zotero, NoodleBib, EndNote, RefWorks, and EasyBib. Maybe we can approach them as a genealogy community and encourage them to support EE-style which as I understand it is an extension of Turabian.")

EE follows the Chicago Manual of Style’s “humanities style,” rather than Turabian. Of course, CMOS and Turabian are both products of the University of Chicago Press. However, Turabian is a style and citation guide aimed at college students, who may or may not go on to do serious research. CMOS is a vast expansion of Turabian, designed for mature researchers, rather than students.

EE follows the basic principles in CMOS’s two “documentation” chapters (Chaps. 16–17, pp. 593–754, in the 15th edition), extending them to the myriad of original record types that CMOS does not cover. And, of course, EE also demonstrates specific history and genealogy applications of the source types—mostly published ones—that CMOS does cover.

The source of Mark’s “understanding,” may be the fact that the first citation article I published (way back in 1978 for the Genealogical Helper, when I was a student) was based on Turabian."

Elizabeth

The genealogical community owes a tremendous debt of gratitude to Elizabeth Shown Mills. While we struggle to format one citation, she has worked tirelessly to produce thousands for our benefit.

I hope standardization and online tools for formating citations are in our near future. If they are, it will be in no small part due to her efforts.

A Clarification

My reticence regarding the subject of my last post does not stem from Mark Tucker or his series of articles. They are both brilliant and he is to be commended.

My reticence stems from the implementation of Mark's idea by competing "for profit" business models.

I am in favor of businesses prospering. Make money! Particularly these businesses. I use them. I depend on them. I rejoice in every new addition.

I wanted to give a common sense approach to what I see as a business balancing act. And recognizing it as such. Do all great ideas have a market? Only time will tell. And it may be the independent entrepreneur that brings this to the genealogical community.

I Have No Answers - Only Questions and Thoughts

Good good good good citations
I'm pickin' up good citations
Your giving me excitations
Good good good good citations [1]

I can barely find my way around the html on my blog, much less understand the technical discussions proffered by Mark Tucker of Think Genealogy in his series "Better Online Citations." I had some questions regarding the series, so I emailed Mark and he was kind enough to respond. He has agreed to allow me to discuss those emails.

The following thoughts and questions may make me sound technically challenged. Which I readily admit I am. I will give you some of my citation background prior to that discussion.

I write my own citations. I spent a great deal of time and money in law school learning to write citations. In some courts the consequence of improper citation formats in a brief is that the entire brief will be thrown out by the court. Clients, rightly so, find this infuriating and expensive in both time and money. Lawyers should find it embarrassing.

So I paid close attention in my legal writing class. May I take just a moment to brag on my alma mater, Seattle University School of Law? It has the number one Legal Writing Program in the nation according to U.S. News & World Report. I had excellent teachers.

Does this mean I always correctly format citations? No. I will admit to online complacency. My blog will not be thrown out if I don't have perfect citations. That said, I don't want to short change those we read my blog and would love to find the source of my information. I'm trying to make a real effort on my blogs as well as my research to provide correct citations. I try to be scrupulous regarding my citations in my genealogy program.

If I could have one wish, it would be citation standardization. I am always distressed by those who write citation articles concerning genealogy who give MLA, APA, Chicago/Turabian, and Elizabeth Shown Mills examples; saying it is better to cite using some form than to have no citation at all.

Yes, it is best to cite, but it is far better to have citation standardization. And why reinvent the wheel when we have the brilliant work of Elizabeth Shown Mills? She has given us the templates for so many of the most commonly used sources for genealogists in her book Evidenced Explained, a necessity for every serious family historian. And I recommend we all get serious.

Mark's series deals with the online "big boys." Those purveyors of information on a large scale that do not have to be named, we all know them. Looking at how each cites now, often makes me dizzy and they use Mills as the basis for their work.

My first question - Why would they adopt citation standardization? Will it make them more money or increase their paid customers?

Mark responds that "The top 3 things that an online genealogy business cares about are: subscription revenue, customer loyalty, and web page hits. If we can figure out how citing online sources can significantly increase any of these, then this effort just might be successful."

Now this is just me, but why would I choose one "big boy" over the other based on whether or not they provide citations? I wouldn't. I would choose one over the other based on the content they offered that is applicable to my research. The level and quality of the material offered is of far more importance than providing standardized citations. Particularly when we are talking about money out of this very Scottish purse. Yes, I'd use it. Yes, it would be convenient. Yes, I'd love it. Yes, but with a little effort, I can write my own for free.

[Mark] "I see your point about choosing a provider based on content."

To make this work, all the "big boys" must play. What would motivate them?

[Mark] "Not exactly sure what will motivate the big boys. Maybe they want to be good stewards of the records. Not so sure that they believe it will make them any more money. I wonder if the genealogy community voted for proper citations vs. more records, which would win."

If implemented, what happens to those years and myriad databases that already exist? Will new additions and databases use the proposed method and the older the present citation formats until they can be converted? Or does the method proposed automatically select the information from the older databases and configure it in a new format? (I warned you, I know nothing.) If it isn't automatic then we will have two formats for every "big boy," and probably for quite some time. In my opinion, upgrading older citation formats will not bring in as many customers as new material.

[Mark] "I think conversion of old citation formats to new will have to be done manually. Would citing new sources really cost big bucks? Someone already has to understand the content of each database that comes online in order to write whatever form of citation is currently provided. A little training and they could do it with little extra cost. I feel a way could be devised to add citations to existing content maybe with the help of the genealogy community and volunteers."

Were I one of the "big boys" I'd do a cost benefit analysis and I'm betting content would win. Volunteers working for the "for profit big boys" also brings up the age old discussion of providing the labor of the genealogical community and then being charged for it.

The citations for every "big boy" would have to be exactly the same and exactly correct. If there are too many variations between the citations created and corrections are required, I'll just write it myself. Yes, I have the advantage of knowing how and I certainly see the advantages of a "one click" method. But I would hate to see the entire genealogical community using something that isn't correct or being frustrated in an attempt to make corrections for the sake of expediency. Then the entire point of this citation method has failed.

I research so many more places than the "big boys." I am always at the Library of Congress (LOC) and many of the newspaper archives, not to mention my great love, Google Books. What of this?

[Mark] "There is a plugin for the Firefox browser called Zotero that is able to identify entries on a web page and import fields for a citation. The way it works is to create specific code for each website. For example, visiting Amazon and accessing book details will allow adding the fields corresponding to book. This is an example of non-Amazon-owned code identifying source field values. Either something like that will need to be done or the websites themselves will have to support the file format. Some already have a defined file format as is the case with WorldCat."

I would like to see two forms of citation created; the Source List Entry and the First Full Reference Note. Shown Mills gives us all three and it is very useful. Three would be great.

[Mark] "The Full Reference usually has a superset of the fields defined for the Source List. As long as all fields are gathered for the Full Reference, a citation can be created for both."

Could there be an independent website? You find the information in an online database, copy the url, insert it in a form on the independent website and a standardized citation is configured? There are probably too many variables for this; it would be wonderful though and I could use it for Google books and the LOC.

[Mark] "Interesting idea. Maybe that is possible. Follows closely the idea of Zotero mentioned earlier."

If we find no interest from any of the "big boys," why couldn't something like NoodleBib be created using the Shown Mills models? It certainly would have advertising potential. I understand that this would be much more time consuming than a "one click" approach, but if the "big boys" weren't interested in putting up the "big bucks" would it work? I also love the fact NoodleBib educates the user regarding citations and allows for annotation. I often annotate my sources.

[Mark] "That might be another approach. There are many citation tools like Zotero, NoodleBib, EndNote, RefWorks, and EasyBib. Maybe we can approach them as a genealogy community and encourage them to support EE-style which as I understand it is an extension of Turabian."

Would you as a genealogist pay for a site that formatted all of your citations according to the Shown Mills method? Depending on the amount charged, I would for the sake of expediency and the ability to convert every source I use.

Now you know what's on my mind. Really not the technical approach, more common sense questions in a genealogical content world that is driven by money and marketing.

Thank you, Mark, for your time and patience. You do our genealogical community a great service.

What's on your mind. Sound off in the comments. Let's hear what you think.



Sources:

[1] Wilson, Brian, and Mike Love. “Good Vibrations.” Lyrics. Good Vibrations, Single. Brian Wilson, 1966. Copyright ©1966 & 1978, Brian Wilson and Mike Love. Lyrics Freak (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/beach+boys/good+vibrations_20013757.html : accessed 18 October 2007). Parody.

Exact email questions and conversations have been condensed for the sake of brevity and continuity.